GTV TB vs 166 TB

[kunev 131]

These two cars use same engine, but engine management on 166 is more modern. 166 TB have MAF instead of AFM in GTV TB and ignition is with coil pack (one smaller coil for 2 cylinders fired at same time - wasted spark concept) instead of distributor. Don't know for injection. The ECUs are of course different - Motronic ML4.1 in GTV TB and Motronic ME2.1 in 166 TB.

So does anyone here have driven both and how they compare? How they feel?

I see that Squadra Tuning don't offer chip tuning for 166 TB and also many companies in Bulgaria, so should have something special with his ECU  .

[Thanos 193]

and a 6 speed gearbox...

The 166 is faster than the GTV. It is almost as fast as a chip tuned GTV.

[Alfaduden 226]

BUT, not as sporty and trackday friendly as GTV

I like the look of 166 PH1. Design that even today looks good.

[joeGTV 106]

and a 6 speed gearbox...

The 166 is faster than the GTV. It is almost as fast as a chip tuned GTV.

 

Are you sure??

http://www.zeperfs.com/duel24-19.htm

 

The 166 is heavy... but motor reversals are very good in the 166.

I think both are the same perfs..

[Thanos 193]

Yes I am sure..

Tested many times with stock and 1st stage GTV on autobahn.. 

From 80 in 3rd gear to as fast as possible.

[kunev 131]

Thanos opinion is surprising to me also, but I don't have any experience with 166, so can not comment categorically.

The factory figures also show, that GTV should be faster.

Thanos are sure about the stock condition of this/these 166 and GTV also?

I expected differences in response from the engine, maybe spool by turbo.

. 

[GTV-TB 315]

It's all about the exhaust headers...

[kunev 131]

It's all about the exhaust headers...

As I sad in another topic, that is absolutely not right . Confirmed by an exhaust specialist  . GTV TB manifolds have smoother design.

[Filip 124]

It's all about the bass...

[GTV-TB 315]

As I sad in another topic, that is absolutely not right . Confirmed by an exhaust specialist  . GTV TB manifolds have smoother design.

 GTV TB manifolds have smoother design ?... with three sharp bends? where the exhaust hits a wall when they leave the exhaust ports of the cylinder head, and cast iron that absorbs the heat from the exhaust gases and conducts it to engine bay instead of letting the heat act on the turbocharger turbine.

 

[kunev 131]

Here is the post with links to pictures of first parts of exhaust manifolds -> link.

From these pictures the entry in exhaust manifolds on 166 doesn't look much straighter than on GTV ones. But joining of the runners on GTV manifolds is much better than on 166 ones.

Cast iron manifolds keep heat inside them better than stainless steel  .

Also cast iron manifolds are more durable than stainless steel.

GTV-TB as far as I understand you have made change to 166 TB exhaust manifolds. So do you feel any difference? And I'm more interested in high rpms.

[Thanos 193]

Alfa Romeo made many improvements in the 166 TB.. I do not thing that they went a step backwards with the manifolds.

Does anyone know if the 166 TB has different camshafts?

 

About my previous post,

all cars was in great condition.

[GTV-TB 315]

Here is the post with links to pictures of first parts of exhaust manifolds -> link.

From these pictures the entry in exhaust manifolds on 166 doesn't look much straighter than on GTV ones. But joining of the runners on GTV manifolds is much better than on 166 ones.

Cast iron manifolds keep heat inside them better than stainless steel  .

Also cast iron manifolds are more durable than stainless steel.

GTV-TB as far as I understand you have made change to 166 TB exhaust manifolds. So do you feel any difference? And I'm more interested in high rpms.

 

Exhaust manifolds from 166 is much more straighter/open than the GTV ones.

 

stainless steel thermal conductivity: 16 Wm°K

cast iron thermal conductivity: 58 Wm°K

 

So stainless steel conducts less heat than cast iron, also the three sharp bends on the cast iron manifold contributes to heat losses and probably also has a negative effect on exhaust gas velocity from and scavenging on these three cylinders.

 

The engine is not fully built yet, so it's too early to say anything about any difference.

[ivan_166 0]

These two cars use same engine, but engine management on 166 is more modern. 166 TB have MAF instead of AFM in GTV TB and ignition is with coil pack (one smaller coil for 2 cylinders fired at same time - wasted spark concept) instead of distributor. Don't know for injection. The ECUs are of course different - Motronic ML4.1 in GTV TB and Motronic ME2.1 in 166 TB.

 

the engine is not exactly the same: 

 

as far as i remember the things that differ: engine block and 1 head , oil pump, sump pan, exhaust manifolds, flywheel (166 has dual mass), engine management as you mentioned, and other smaller misc stuff,

[Desame 33]

All the difference comes from this:

 

Engine management

 

The rest are just ... παπαριές ....! (may Thanos translate this greek phrase ) 

 

They are true, but dont really make any serious difference... 

[ivan_166 0]

It is not the case if it makes any difference regarding the performance (engine in 166 is improved from that aspect), but in the fact that You can't combine all of the parts from one engine to another (I've learned that by pure accident). I am also pretty sure that the pistons from the older engine types are not the same (something to do with the rings). 

[Damgreg 94]

I'm going to get a complete wire ECU AFM and coil from a 166 TB to fit in my race track Gtv in the next few months... 

[Desame 33]

Damgreg any update on this?