GTV V6 TB aka Shewolf

[Thanos 193]

Car:

Alfa Romeo Gtv

Model: 1999

Engine: 2.0 V6 TB.

Color: Grigio Eclisse

Interior: Red momo leather.

Equipment:

Lusso trim, alarm system, heated seats, electric sunroof.

Modifications:

-Engine,

Q2

Squadra Tuning Chip Tuning

sf Sprint Filter

200cell Metallic Catalytic Converter

Ragazzon Central Pipe

Novitec Duplex Rear Silencer

-Wheels,Brakes Suspension,

KW/Novitec Coilovers

Wiechers Aluminium Strut Bar

18" Rondell Felgen 0026

Porsche 996 GT3/Turbo/G4S Calipers with 330x32 GTA rotors

More photos soon...

[Toshko 10]

Sounds great project. Can't wait pictures

[Paso 239]

Great teaser!

[Thanos 193]

The calipers,

I am still searching for discs at the moment.

The easy and cheap way is the 330 discs from the GTA.

The not easy and expensive way is the two piece rotors. 355 maybe...

I will take my time in order to evaluate the second choise.

[Joris 136]

Calipers look nice!

Whats thicknis of the discs you can put into the calipers?

I know 166 and 24v calipers go's with 28mm discs but there not 330 discs with the right offset for 916 alfa 28 mm.

[Thanos 193]

330x32 disks can be fitted.

The intersting thing about this caliper are the pistons diameter - 44mm the big one /36mm the small one.

Pad size is 140x89.

The mounting is "radial" and they are monobloc.

[ALXege 75]

Same color scheme as mine! Can't wait for new pics!

[kunev 131]

Wonderfull car! Your upgrades are spot on!

These calipers are very good. The original size disk on 996 turbo is 330x34! So my advice is minimum 32mm thick disks! Disks from later GTAs are 330x32 (earlier models use 305x28) so like you say they are probably the optimal variant value for money. 2 slot disk are very expensive unfortunately . But if your budget allow look at Ksport friction rings for example with and someone can fabricate aluminium hats with desired ofset for you . If you want to install bigger than 330mm disks (355mm for example) you may have the following "problem" - pads not make contact with its full area with the disks (outside part of the pads not touch the disks, if you understand me) because these calipers are originaly for 330mm disk. These problem occur for example when GTA/GTV brembo calipers (originaly designed for 305mm disks) are used with 330mm disks. The normal variant is on the outermost part of the disk to have strip that is not touched from pads that contacted a little bit inside of the disks.

[Thanos 193]

Thank you for the infos Kunev. Looks like you know alot about brakes.

You are right about the original discs size for those calipers. It is 330x34.

330x32 disks can be fitted without any problem at all but my idea is to use some brake heat shields. http://hardbrakes.com/

In this way the pads will come 2mm closer to the discs in order the distance that the pistons have to cover will be the same like using 34mm thick discs.

On the other hand 2mm more or less piston-travel do not make any big difference.

About the 355 slot disks,

I totaly understand the description of the "problem" that you mentioned.

Many have used those calipers with 355mm discs but nobody has brought up any pad issue.

I guess that I have to figure it out by myself.

They are expensive but I hope they are good value for money as they do not fade that easily.

The mechanic that is about to make the brake adaptors can also make the "bells" for the discs.

Anyway I am not in a hurry for that mod...

The closest senario at the moment is to use 330x32 discs and in the future to upgrade the brakes with 2-piece discs.

[Fabian 10]

Nice calipers!!

Some cheaper rotors:

http://www.compbrake.com/discs-rotors.html

Be carefull with these guys when buying, it took me 6+ months (and 30 or so mails and calls) to get a set of pads that should have come with my handbrake calipers.

The hight of the pads is called "swept pad area"

Most are 50mm or 60mm (mine are 80)

The Alfa 305 have 50mm, the 330's have 60mm

[kunev 131]

If you go for bigger than 330mm discs you can't use under 18" wheels anymore (except you go back to original configuration ), but 330mm discs will not "fill" 18" wheels (as optical aspect of the upgrade). So whatever upgrade you will make save your original break equipment just in case . Buy good performance brake pads and brake fluid. And braided brake hoses are a must , they will give you good pedal feel when braking. When brake calipers are upgraded from single piston to multi pistons the biting point of brakes start at more pedal travel, unless total area of all brake pistons for one caliper is equal to the area of the piston on a single piston caliper (like original one). The ratio between brake master cylinder bore and total area of all pistons (in front and rear calipers) is changed in that way. The rear brakes do a lot less work than the front on a front wheel drive car (V6 GTV have very heavy front end) so the rear calipers not need changing. Only good pads on the rear is enough for the upgrade, but the rear pads should be with friction coefficient less than or at most equal to the front.

You will make very serious brake upgrade (braking power is never too much ), but did you have some plan for even more increasing of the power output of your engine? The main restrictor in the GTV V6 tb exhaust system is the downpipe! I will advice you to upgrade the original with custom made downpipe. If you decide to upgrade your compressor wheel and/or housing with bigger one and in that case to make hybrid turbo the downpipe should not be changed, but if you planing on changing the turbo then the downpipe should be made with installation of the turbo (and not only it ) if you want to make it one time.

[Thanos 193]

Not only the downpipe but the whole exhaust system of the TB is a joke!

I have change the exhaust already and I suggest a dimension of 63mm.

The pad that are going to be used are the porsche OEM and ofcourse with goodridge brake pipes.

EBC yellow pads are my favorites but I want to try the 4pot calipers with the OEM pads at the beginning...

As you said.. Brakes are never too much and the original brakes are a disappointment.

I would like to have the option to use 17" wheels for track days and I have seen 355 brake discs on 17" wheels.

For every day use I am happy with the 18" wheels but no doudt the 17" are the best choice.

[kunev 131]

So you have custom made downpipe? You want to make a difference between OEM and performance pads, thats not a bad thing. Why you prefer EBC Yellow Stuff pads? Thats are more track oriented pads. I think that you will drive your car on the road most of the time and with that track pads you will have to heat up the pads with several stops and then they will start working. And if you don't push the brakes harder for a while they will "glaze"(city driving). And probably they need some more aggressive bedding procedure in the beginning. I will give you some feedback for Yellow Stuff that i have found from EBC distributor here in Bulgaria (he have a lot of feedback from its customers):

- "One customer come one day to the service and he say to me - WHY DID NOT TOLD ME THAT I HAVE TO WARM UP THEM, I WAS GOING TO HIT THE TYRES ON "DRAGON" TRACK" (and the man was quoted with capital letters - he talked loudly )

- "The yellows stops really brutal ... if you have patience "

I saw that in EBC website they listed yellow stuff as street and track pads, maybe they have made some new compound for Yellow Stuff . It's your car and your decision. I think that for fast street and occasionally track use have better suited pads:

- EBC Red Stuff

- Ferrodo DS2500

- Performance Friction Z-rated (this is my favorite for next pads)

- Pagid RS 4-2 Blue, Pagid RS5 Blue

- Carbone Lorain RC5+

...

On picture that you show I see racing brake calipers and racing wheel (Compomotive TH2) that have "width space" inside it. With "road calipers" and "road wheels" i think that you probably would not achieve that. I saw your wheels and they have good space inside from foto, so this variant should be measured to be clear before upgrade is made .

When you use Squadra tuning before or after exhaust upgrade?

[Thanos 193]

Thank you for your feedback Kunev!

Believe it or not I warm up the pads before every "fast road"..

Offcourse the best solution is to change pads for each use (track/fast road/every day use)

I never use my Gtv in the city but you are right, they get cold in the autobahn.

Very important is also the "preparation" after the installation of new pads or discs.

Many people forget that. Please have a look,

http://www.essexpart...ads/post/Bed-in

Yes I have a custom downpipe and a 200cell kat.

This change was made after the squadra tuning.

Do you mean that the Compomotibe TH2 wheels are not suitable for steet use and why?

[kunev 131]

So you know how to "treat" the brakes and in your case probably Yellow Stuff will be just fine. I talked about the general case for street use.

I haven't said that motorsport wheels (in the above example - Compomotive TH2) are not suitable for street use. Just said that race calipers are more light and compact for their potential and motorsport wheels are designed in addition to be light and strong to allow more space for brake assembly. Аnd as conclusion this "super filled" wheels-brakes configuration that you show (and I very like it ) is possible only with certain models wheels and brake calipers (in most case race version of both especially for calipers). Sorry that I did not express properly and was misunderstood .

Did you plan another tuning of ECUs for proper utilization of more free flow exhaust and intake?

And one more question for Squadra tuning - is the car ECUs tuning made with live maping on the dyno or you just install common chips for V6 tb? Your car was stock at that moment (from what I read) so probably common chip.

P.S.

Sorry for my long posts. This is just support for performance oriented GTV enthusiast .

[Thanos 193]

Long posts are always welcome!

The porsche calipers are very light as they are aluminium and monobloc made but they have a width of 16cm and that is kind of huge.

The ECU tuning is not made on the dyno but with a common chip install.

I had a contact with Stephan of Squadra Tuning as I wanted to travel to Holland and make the ECU tuning there.

He told me that there is no reason to make the trip as the only thing that they check is the technical condition of the car.

Modifications like exhaust and airfilter do not requiire any other adjustment to the chips.

Do not forget that we are talking for a 1st stage tuning in an oldschool turbo car.

If there is bigger turbo swap or injectors or whatsoever, a new chip adjustment is necessary.

Yes I have a new ECU tuning on my mind.. and this will cost alot of money unfortunately.

I am thinking of a G4 Link ECU but before that I want to make some other modifications like a Q2 and a 6speed gear box.

[kunev 131]

Probably most of Brembo calipers are aluminium . Monoblock is better design than two pieces, but after all your are from top model of Porsche and all Porsches have superb brakes even old one.

To be honest I did not agree with that sport air filter and more free flow exhaust don't need more specific ECU tuning (even for our old turbo cars). What is turbo pressure after Squadra chip (did you have boost gaude) and at overboost. If you go for retuning after your changes I'm sure that will make better result (not only peak value), but with prices for tuning in west Europe (richer countries ) is not worth it, only for major changes. For example I saw in Squadra price list 435Euro for our model without installation . Here in Bulgaria ECU tuning for our models is 150-250 Euro (custom tuning and on the upside for price will be with dyno ).

What model Link G4 you want - Atom, Storm or Extreme . In the city where I live is the official dealer for East Europe http://www.linkecu.bg/ . I also have thought for this brand, because of value for money and the fact mentioned in the previous sentence .

6 speed box will be good because longer 6th gear and of coarse - 6 is better than 5 gears. But I think that I'm read somewhere that 5 speed box is stronger (and that is very important thing if it is true) and is it worth the money and time (and to find 6 speed box first of all).

[Thanos 193]

355x35 rotors.

They are not that heavy and they look great but I still believe that the 330x32 is better choise for me..

[Thanos 193]

Thank you for the link about the dealer Kunev!

I am interested on a Link G4 Extreme.

Do you have any idea about the prices?

About the turbo pressure of squadra tuning,

at mid rpm is about +0,2 and at high rpm about +0,3 bar.

[kunev 131]

Mmm big brakes . Is that rotors yours or this is only for picture? 35mm width is very serious, too width for these calipers. I still don't think that this combination will fit with almost any 17" wheels.

I can tell you the prices for ECU models alone:

- Link G4 Atom -> 800E without VAT

- Link G4 Storm -> 1000E without VAT

- Link G4 Extreme -> 1200E without VAT

"Extreme" has more features and capabilities, but probably is overkill for our cars (unless you plan something very very serious ). Our models are with distributed spark and one coil - so only one signal for ignition. The signal to all injectors from Motronic is one from what I see in this diagram (Batch fired injection) ->

WiringDiagramC.bmp

From what I read in the specification of the models - Atom and Storm have 4 High Current Injector Drives. So for them low impedance injectors are needed, which have better performance in comparison to high impedance at the expense of durability. But if you want direct signal to every injector (Sequential fuel injection) - only "Extreme" support 6, it has 8 Injection Channels (so it don't mind the type of injectors). But probably other "free" outputs can be used for injectors - Atom have 4 and Storm 8 Auxiliary Outputs (so only Storm probably can be used for such task). "Atom" don't have motorsport features - Antilag,Launch control,Flat shifting, but they are not necessary for street car in my opinion. The main things about aftermarket ECU (in my opinion) is that you can use MAP sensor (and throw V6 tb big, restrictive AFM) and you have very good flexibility for control and monitoring. I'm not so familiar with ECUs (for now ), but I think that even with "Atom" can be achieved good results. If maximum capabilities is the goal - then "Extreme". For real advices and tips should be talked with guys who installed and tuned this systems. I have read that Link ECUs dealer have good success with that. So they probably are very good value for money. Of coarse there is many others ECU variants. The cheapest way is Megasquirt of coarse.

[Thanos 193]

Discs are all mine. If you have good friends all things is possible

35mm width has been used with this calipers on many VAG models.

The only problem as you said is that they wont fit behind 17" wheels.

Anyway,

I need bells and brackets. Still alot work to do...

Maybe two types of brackets will be made. A pair for the 330 discs and a pair for the 355.

Link G4 for the win!

The informations that you share in the foroum about the ECU-tuning are very impressive!

You are free to make a new topic if you want!

[kunev 131]

I'm waiting to see these big brakes on the car . In that case you can't use brake heat shields as you plan in the beginning, but that's not a problem. I think that you may have to use some thinner brake pads, but that should be measured for sure. If you want to make bracket also for 330 mm discs setup you will need the exact disc that should be used for measurement (if you use 330 mm disc rotor with bells again that shouldn't be a problem ). If you ask me don't hurry with 330 mm setup! If all aspects of the car have to met the level of the brakes that should be one hell of a car .

[kunev 131]

Just a little update of the prices of the Link ECU from bulgarian dealer (and all east europe). Unfortunately the prices goes up. Either Link have corrected the price or the dealer make correction because big demand (they have a lot of work last year) or maybe both (but they don't mention new features).

- Link G4 Atom -> 945E excluding VAT

- Link G4 Storm -> 1175E excluding VAT

- Link G4 Extreme -> 1430E excluding VAT

These prices are calculated to euro by me and the previous prices are more rough.

Probably Link cousin's Vi-PEC have also changed their prices.

P.S. Thanos sorry for that post in your topic, but because I mention prices earlier I think it is good to write last prices. If you want I can make correction in my previous post and that to be deleted

[Joris 136]

2 piece disc brakes looks amazing...

About all the turbo and ecu info from Kunev respect for youre kwowledge!

I sadly can't follow but thats also becouse i don't have a V6 turbo.

Looking forward to see the results!

[freeemre 5]

hi, your gtv's sunroof is original or the other prod. i'm looking your garage photos, i think different size sunroof in pics. in vehicle images, 4th picture, sunroof look like very big . is this original ???