Turbo Brutale

[Filip 124]

The wheels are great! I see that you will continue with upgrades to your car, but the direction become very strange to me.

I agree because I like all the mods you have carried out so far (well, I prefer 17" teledials or 18" Sienas, but I'm conservative when it comes to rims ) but I don't understand why you would want to fit red hoses and a down/frontpipe like that. In my mind, both the subtlety of the GTV and its beauty lie in its lack of flashy colors and dramatic spoilers. What's your plan with these hoses?

If I were you, I'd just get rid of the centre silencer or fit a rear section from, for example, CSC or Wizard, to get a slightly louder exhaust note and possibly bring out a few extra ponies. I wouldn't touch the front section and downpipe unless I was going to fit a larger, more modern turbo and modify the manifolds. In that case, I would probably rebuild the whole thing (Or rather, someone would have to do it for me because I'm the worst welder that I have ever met ).

[Alfaduden 226]

Well, first things first, I agree regarding red hoses in the engine bay looks seriously UNCOOL! I will see if I can find any in black if I'm going to change them at all.

 

Regarding exhaust, I have spoken to a garage in Germany to change the whole system to a ragazzon and then remove the cat at the same time.

The reason I looked on this orque stuff was because my downpipe/flexpipe is starting to fall apart...

[kunev 131]

This garage in Germany will only install pieces or also will make some custom parts. In their catalog I see parts for center and back section, but not exhaust manifold, downpipe or decat. They make catalysts, but they are rated for low power applications. If you can wait for downpipe I have something in mind, but your case is urgent.

[Alfaduden 226]

Hi Kunev.

 

I'm in no rush now, due to the conrod bearings are broken

 

The engine are being rebuild, and I'm thinking of a GT2860RS turbo upgrade, or just buy a new GT2554R...

I have ordered new cluch and Q2 LSD. New GTA fuel injectors are on its way from England.

 

I might as well wait for your solution regarding the downpipe... Sounds interesting!   

I will as you understand not be able to drive the car to Germany tomorrow... I'm planning a trip to Bosnia and Croatia the 01.july. Hopefully the car is ready for that...

[GTV-TB 315]

Alfaduden what happened to your bearings?

 

Kunev it sounds exciting, could you please elaborate a bit more about your ideas on the downpipe.

[Joris 136]

Thats terrible! Specialy now nice weather is finally here... hope they rebuild the engine soon!

[kunev 131]

What else is broken and/or demaged in the engine? Thats not the first case of bearings failure on TB, which I heard unfortunately. With what oil did you drive, at what level (just for my information)? Bearings worn with using of the car and have to be replaced on performance car with high mileage.

At what price did you order Q2 diff? Quaife is at better price now. Very good upgrade for powerful FWD car.

What clutch did you order. Probably something upgraded, stage 1 for example (upgraded pressure plate)?

I make a little research and found flow capacity of 224 cc/min for GTA injectors, not so bigger compared to 189 cc/min stock yellow one. Did you have some problem with stock one or that have been good deal?

I don't think that installing of GT2860RS or GT2554R will be much different in time, work and parts which have to be done. The question is what you want from the car and for what you have been prepared (money) and of course the right guy/guys which will make the project. 

What you plan to change in your engine? 

First rebuild your engine and then think for upgrades.

The thing that I have in mind regarding downpipe was to give my car to my friend which make exhaust manifold and all other components of exhaust system, turbo piping, strut braces (weld stainless steel, aluminium, titanium). He to make downpipe and to send it to you, for some price and delivery tax of course. 

[Filip 124]

Just like Kunev always does, I have some questions 

 

When changing injectors, turbo and the whole exhaust system, wouldn't you have to remap the ECU?

What are you planning to do about this? Maybe it will readjust enough on its own?

 

 

I really like what you've done with your GTV so far 

[jowi 16]

What is your experience with the Magnecor KV85 ignition leads? I am looking for a replacement of my stock (Bosch) leads. I've heard complaints about the KV85 connectors not 100% fitting or even disconnecting after some time?

 

Also, the additional detector on the lead to cilinder one, does it come with the set, is it allready mounted on the set? I know from the early sets you had to DIY the detector yourself. That is NOT what i want

[Alfaduden 226]

Thats terrible! Specialy now nice weather is finally here... hope they rebuild the engine soon!

 

Mhm! Really sad! The car is finished some time in late June... 

 

What else is broken and/or demaged in the engine? Thats not the first case of bearings failure on TB, which I heard unfortunately. With what oil did you drive, at what level (just for my information)? Bearings worn with using of the car and have to be replaced on performance car with high mileage.

At what price did you order Q2 diff? Quaife is at better price now. Very good upgrade for powerful FWD car.

What clutch did you order. Probably something upgraded, stage 1 for example (upgraded pressure plate)?

I make a little research and found flow capacity of 224 cc/min for GTA injectors, not so bigger compared to 189 cc/min stock yellow one. Did you have some problem with stock one or that have been good deal?

I don't think that installing of GT2860RS or GT2554R will be much different in time, work and parts which have to be done. The question is what you want from the car and for what you have been prepared (money) and of course the right guy/guys which will make the project. 

What you plan to change in your engine? 

First rebuild your engine and then think for upgrades.

The thing that I have in mind regarding downpipe was to give my car to my friend which make exhaust manifold and all other components of exhaust system, turbo piping, strut braces (weld stainless steel, aluminium, titanium). He to make downpipe and to send it to you, for some price and delivery tax of course. 

 

I don't know yet. I got the car transported to the same garage that did last big service. They will do the rebuild of the engine for me. I had Agip 10W60, and for some reason it was very little oil, but I find that strange, because I have not noticed any consumption or leaks... Therefore I did not check the level either. To use almost 7 liters of oil in just a few hundred kilometers?   

I ordered this:

http://ricambi.alfisti.net/product_info.php?info=p9193_Sperrdifferential-Q2-Alfa-147--GT--156--166--GTV--Spider.html

The reason I went for a original alfa Q2 is because this is developed for long-lasting performance by Alfa. It is a little more expensive than the Quaife, but better in the long term. I'm just using original clutch.

The GTA injectors are a lot better to original TB and Chipped TBs than the stock ones. A chipped TB are usually running a bit lean, so bigger injectors are a good upgrade on these injectors. I can also use injectors from Fiat Coupe 20VT, but that probably require remap. These from the GTA is within the limit the stock ECU can handle, and the ECU will adapt itself to bigger injectors. My old injectors were fine, but the engine was running to lean so it was "jumping" at full throttle and overboost.

I do not have any other thoughts than to rebuild my engine and leave it chipped with new injectors and a new GT2554R ball bearing turbo. (If I decide to replace the turbo at all...) Im going a bit on and off on that... I will probably just change the gaskets and then use the old turbo. Maybe overhaul that one instead. I have a contact that can modify and overhaul it for around 350 EURO. 

 

I am very interested in the exhaust system that you're talking about, and willing to wait until I know some more! 

 

Just like Kunev always does, I have some questions 

 

When changing injectors, turbo and the whole exhaust system, wouldn't you have to remap the ECU?

What are you planning to do about this? Maybe it will readjust enough on its own?

 

 

I really like what you've done with your GTV so far 

 

Hehe It is a good thing to ask questions! 

The stock ECU is adaptive and within a certain range it will adapt itself to new injectors!   It is a good upgrade as the Alfas tend to run a bit lean.

 

What is your experience with the Magnecor KV85 ignition leads? I am looking for a replacement of my stock (Bosch) leads. I've heard complaints about the KV85 connectors not 100% fitting or even disconnecting after some time?

 

Also, the additional detector on the lead to cilinder one, does it come with the set, is it allready mounted on the set? I know from the early sets you had to DIY the detector yourself. That is NOT what i want

I have not been able to install this yet as I forgot them in the workshop. Will come back with a review later...

[Thanos 193]

What is your experience with the Magnecor KV85 ignition leads? I am looking for a replacement of my stock (Bosch) leads. I've heard complaints about the KV85 connectors not 100% fitting or even disconnecting after some time?

 

Also, the additional detector on the lead to cilinder one, does it come with the set, is it allready mounted on the set? I know from the early sets you had to DIY the detector yourself. That is NOT what i want

 

Try to find the original Bosch. These are better than anything

NGK also has leads for our cars.

[Thanos 193]

 

I make a little research and found flow capacity of 224 cc/min for GTA injectors, not so bigger compared to 189 cc/min stock yellow one. Did you have some problem with stock one or that have been good deal?

 

 

Have we talked about the injectors from the Punto GT before?

I can not remember if they are bigger than the GTA injectors..

[charlee 314]

I think the GTA injectors are larger. I have them and remember comparing from a table of injector specs I had somewhere

[Filip 124]

 

The GTA injectors are a lot better to original TB and Chipped TBs than the stock ones. A chipped TB are usually running a bit lean, so bigger injectors are a good upgrade on these injectors. I can also use injectors from Fiat Coupe 20VT, but that probably require remap. These from the GTA is within the limit the stock ECU can handle, and the ECU will adapt itself to bigger injectors. My old injectors were fine, but the engine was running to lean so it was "jumping" at full throttle and overboost.

 

 

The stock ECU is adaptive and within a certain range it will adapt itself to new injectors!   It is a good upgrade as the Alfas tend to run a bit lean.

 

 

 

I think the GTA injectors are larger. I have them and remember comparing from a table of injector specs I had somewhere

 

Do you remember what those limits are? The factory ones deliver 189cc/min @ 3 bar, what about the GTA ones?

Edited May 24, 2013 by Filip

[charlee 314]

224,4cc/min

[Filip 124]

224,4cc/min

Loving the decimal!!

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

[Alfaduden 226]

224,4cc/min

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

 

Bosch pn: 0280156038

[Alfaduden 226]

Do you remember what those limits are? The factory ones deliver 189cc/min @ 3 bar, what about the GTA ones?

 

I dont know the limit of the ECU, but +/- 50cc/min should not be any problem. 

[kunev 131]

I see that Q2 continue to increase it's price. But I think that this price from the link is higher than normal and that is only for Q2 differential (without bearings, seals, O-rings), so you have to add more money for them (because I don't think that you or someone will install it without replace old one). For example that looks better option to me -> link . Both Q2 and Quaife are very strong , I haven't read for someone who have broke one. And as Torsen differential don't change it's characteristics with use as plate type diffs and respectively don't need maintenance. I think that Quaife diffs also have limited lifetime warranty.

Changing of injectors (to one with different flow capacity) will change injected fuel in any moment. Injectors are simple devices which get signal for opening and duration of that signal and flow rate of injectors define injected fuel. In fuel table in ECU are duty cycles (times for "open" position for one cycle in %) - 100% duty cycle mean injectors is open in entire cycle (max flow rate of injector). So that times are specific for concrete operating point of the engine - RPM, metered air flow. In short at same operating point with different flow injectors you will have same time for open of injector in the table in ECU, but the flow rate of different injectors will be different for that specific time. So with bigger injectors you will have more injected fuel in any moment if fuel table in ECU wasn't changed. If the car run "lean" all the time with a little bigger injectors it maybe will run better, but that depend on how "lean" it was running in any working condition, how bigger are new injector ... . Only with such hardware changes is not the way of doing things. You tell that chipped TB run a little lean and that is very strange to me. I think that in such case will have to be checked fuel pressure and cleaning and flow check of injectors, before anything else.

The injectors from Punto GT and 166 3.0 (they are the same I think) have bigger flow capacity than GTA one, around 240 cc/min.

Thanos, it's difficult to believe that stock leads can be better than Magnecor KV85, after all magnecor are designed for more serious demands. But probably if both are fine will work good enough.

[Alfaduden 226]

I see that Q2 continue to increase it's price. But I think that this price from the link is higher than normal and that is only for Q2 differential (without bearings, seals, O-rings), so you have to add more money for them (because I don't think that you or someone will install it without replace old one). For example that looks better option to me -> link . Both Q2 and Quaife are very strong , I haven't read for someone who have broke one. And as Torsen differential don't change it's characteristics with use as plate type diffs and respectively don't need maintenance. I think that Quaife diffs also have limited lifetime warranty.

Changing of injectors (to one with different flow capacity) will change injected fuel in any moment. Injectors are simple devices which get signal for opening and duration of that signal and flow rate of injectors define injected fuel. In fuel table in ECU are duty cycles (times for "open" position for one cycle in %) - 100% duty cycle mean injectors is open in entire cycle (max flow rate of injector). So that times are specific for concrete operating point of the engine - RPM, metered air flow. In short at same operating point with different flow injectors you will have same time for open of injector in the table in ECU, but the flow rate of different injectors will be different for that specific time. So with bigger injectors you will have more injected fuel in any moment if fuel table in ECU wasn't changed. If the car run "lean" all the time with a little bigger injectors it maybe will run better, but that depend on how "lean" it was running in any working condition, how bigger are new injector ... . Only with such hardware changes is not the way of doing things. You tell that chipped TB run a little lean and that is very strange to me. I think that in such case will have to be checked fuel pressure and cleaning and flow check of injectors, before anything else.

The injectors from Punto GT and 166 3.0 (they are the same I think) have bigger flow capacity than GTA one, around 240 cc/min.

Thanos, it's difficult to believe that stock leads can be better than Magnecor KV85, after all magnecor are designed for more serious demands. But probably if both are fine will work good enough.

The Q2 from EBspares is also without bearings and seals as far as I know. And not much difference in price either. I needed something else from them anyway, so Im getting all parts in the same shipment.

[GTV-TB 315]

About differential (I have not seen a Quaife in the flesh) on Q2 there is no problem to fit the gear for speedometer drive, just a little adjustment of the two tabs on the gear for us that have the speedo singnal taken from differential and not from ABS, but how is it

with Quaife are there any slots on the unit to take the tabs on the speedo gear?

[Thanos 193]

BTW Q2

this one doesnt look that expensive either...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-Q2-DIFF-differential-147-156-GT-GTV-55208952-NEW-/190586817196?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c5fdc0aac

[jowi 16]

I have not been able to install this yet as I forgot them in the workshop. Will come back with a review later...

 

I've ordered and installed my Magnecor Competition KV85 set, and i'm very pleased with it. Overall response is way better, engine seems to run smoother. No more small hesitations and stutters when accelerating, less prone to disturbances and engine and/or wheater conditions it seems. The old leads still look ok, couldn't find any cracks or damages or evidence of faulty discharging on the original Bosch leads. I guess these Magnecor ones are just superior. They are about twice as thick, and they look the business

 

[Alfaduden 226]

Looks very neat! Thanks for relpy. Im looking forward to pick up mine and install them as well!

[orgigeorgie 2]

Those pipes look amazing from this angle.